Dec. 8, 2020

07 - The Myth about Sleep for Athletes - Part 2 - Nick Littlehales

07 - The Myth about Sleep for Athletes - Part 2 - Nick Littlehales

If you haven’t listened to part 1 yet, I highly encourage it. It’s episode #6.

Just a reminder of who you are listening to: I’m in the middle of my interview with the world renowned Sport Sleep Coach, Nick Littlehales. Nick has developed the R90 Technique that has been proven time and time again to improve sleep for elite level athletes. This is outlined in great detail in his book Sleep The Myth of 8 Hours, the Power of Naps, and the New Plan to Recharge Your Body & Mind.  He has quite the resume when it comes to working with elite athletes and coaches. Among those that he has consulted includes, Team Sky, Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City, New Zealand’s Olympic Rowing Squad, and various coaches within the NBA, NFL, and MLB. This week we talk about what you need to be doing in your morning routine, should your sleeping habits change with the seasons, and are sleep trackers worth it?

Notable Links From Episode:

Sleep (the book):

Atomic Habits (the book):

Nick Littlehales Information:




Jase Kraft's (Host) Information:





Episodes Mentioned:

06 - Part 1 - Nick Littlehales


Jase Kraft: [00:00:00] What's good, my recovery masters, I know you are super pumped to get into part two of the sleep episode, but if you haven't listened to part one yet, I highly recommend it. And there's Episode six. It just pause where you're at here. Go back Episode six, listen to that one and then come back. And if you are finding value in this podcast, consider telling a friend or sharing it on a post on social and take me. It definitely goes a long way to make this content discoverable for others. Just a reminder of who you are listening to. I'm in the middle of an interview with the world renowned sports sleep coach Nick Little Heils. Nick has developed the AR 90 technique that has been proven time and time again to improve sleep for elite level athlete. This is outlined in great detail in his book, Sleep The Myth of Eight Hours, The Power of Naps and the New Plan to Recharge Your Body and Mind. He has quite the resume when it comes to working with elite athletes and coaches. Among those that he has consulted includes Team Sky, a British cycling team, Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City, New Zealand's Olympic rowing squad, and various coaches within the NBA, NFL and MLB. This week we talk about what you need to be doing in your morning routine. Should your sleeping habits change with the change in seasons and our sleep trackers, wearables, are they worth it? Again, if you took notes last time, you'll definitely want to get your notepad back out and get ready. So let's get into it.


Jase Kraft: [00:01:46] You're listening to the Science of Sports Recovery podcast. Each week, we explore how to recover more efficiently from training so you can work out harder and realize your full potential. This is the Science of Sports Recovery podcast.


Jase Kraft: [00:02:14] Talk to us like what's kind of ideally in a perfect world. Obviously, this isn't going to happen every time I wake up. What should my next 60 minutes be like?


Nick Littlehales: [00:02:24] Well, the principal with that first period is the bit it's going to make. The biggest kick start today is actually the blue energy wave from daylight. This is sunrise kick starting your brain to unsuppressed everything OK? And that's called a hormone called serotonin. It's it's basically triggered by the blue light energy wave in daylight, which triggers the pineal gland to produce serotonin. The hormone which tells the brain instructs the brain to unsuppressed everything. Right now, without that light, you're going to struggle, right? OK, yeah. So the the big thing is, if you were a as a human being and you lived outside all the time, the sun rises with the sun set. And in those first two phases, you'll be an average of maybe one hundred thousand. OK, slightly seasonally dependent. And within that is that blue energy wave that was a human wandering around outside the trees and just clouds. And you're looking up and looking down because it's about light and sometimes it's deemed to be. Any particular research we look at is around an average of ten thousand lots. OK, that's your average in those two periods. But so it's not always ten thousand, but it's an average. OK, so that's like when you step outside it could be a few thousand, but if you're inside it might be less than a thousand. So it's like what you're trying to do is recreate that balance of light exposure because it's the serotonin that kicks you off. What the latter is normally really easy when you wake up in the morning, need to have a wet paper. Towels sometimes are not so easy for us, depending on equipment type as well. Appetite. They're not so easy for some, but so we want an unrushed process in the way you get it.


Nick Littlehales: [00:04:15] Unrushed is to literally with your morning type an owl or a log because the owls have to wake up in an animal's world in the morning type world. So we both have to wake up early to go to training. But the owl didn't want to wake up at six thirty. They want to wake up at eight o'clock. So their appetite and everything the owl is the correct is the only change it to play because I don't want to be talking about owls. Come on, let's move along a bit. I've got a phone. I've now got a small device phones. So I think it is just right. So how do those two prototypes start at the same time? I think the big one was about lights and that's what triggers it. Oh, you've got to you know, whether you open your blinds or your curtains and it's dark outside with you, open your blinds and curtains and the sun's been up for now. But you've got partners wherever you live in cities or the countryside or with your bedroom face is this way or that way. You've really got to say can only a few weeks ago, because we had our daylight saving time shift over here last weekend. Yeah. So we've gone into the winter bluejays, the Seasonal Affective Disorder about oh God, it's actually it's two it's fourteen hundred CPM at this moment. While we're doing this massive podcast, it's already going dark outside. It's already, you know, some four or five weeks ago I'd still be riding my mountain bike at ten o'clock at night in the sun.


Nick Littlehales: [00:05:46] So yeah, I think the bit about your first sixty minutes is understanding the consistent wait time means you keep this stuff consistent. And whether it's winter, autumn, spring or summer, a few weeks ago my curtains were wide. I'm not sure because I was using a sunrise to wake me up. Naturally, when you don't get that, you use the blackout blinds to protect that process. Like in the summer when it's coming up to early, we need to recreate that with a lamp that recreates the sunrise process at ten thousand. Look, not just the lights in your room. And I think that was key to it because it creates appetite, functioning and everything else. A little mental challenges. You can still be active in communicating, but it sort of makes it a really important time that you try to put your brain into a semi paralysed sleep state and it needs to have time to wake up properly. So you don't need to be wandering around carrying the waste that you put in there yesterday. You need the power's out. You need to put some fresh stuff in and use that and hydrate the brain on a little mental challenges. You know, two plus two equals one. Cool. Are we getting going now? We're moving things in the right direction. So I think it's even more relevant that when you've got the world at the end of your smart device to engage with within seconds of work, it's even more important to realise that you've got to get. These normal bodily functions at least moving in the right direction before you start examining the impact they're going to have on you.


Jase Kraft: [00:07:22] And so you talked about like when you don't have that light, that natural light, where you can't just step outside or open the curtains. We talked about a lamp. What what kind of lamp would you suggest?


Jase Kraft: [00:07:35] Because I'm assuming that all lamps are created equal in this sphere.


Jase Kraft: [00:07:40] Is there one thing. 


Nick Littlehales: [00:07:42] Basically when you look at either side lamps, seasonal affective disorder, lamp light therapy tools, there's red light, yellow light. Below them is blue light, but things called wave simulator's and all that producing is they want to be choosing ten thousand blocks or more.


Nick Littlehales: [00:08:00] Ok, because because all the lights that you have around your home is nowhere near that level or the artificial light is nowhere near that level. OK, so it's not about it's damaging the strength of it. It's just like this this hidden thing about the level of light which is triggering those hormones in your life. So that's what they produce. Ten thousand lots. So when you're looking around. So don't make simulator's. I mean, there's one there's one here, actually. Well, this isn't a good example, actually. I've got one in a box anyway. There's a little lamps there. Either of you back and you can you my wait time. Six thirty. It would come on at six o'clock and fill the room with blue light to trigger an actual wake up the curtains and it's dark, particularly when it's going dark to early in the day, you know at four o'clock, three o'clock then you can use it. There's one just up there that's a desk lamp. Now that's just on on a little bit far away from it. But all that's happening, I don't leave that all the time. You know, we're talking about cycles.


Nick Littlehales: [00:09:09] In the first 90 minutes, you at least get 50 minutes. Hits of that was a don't like simulator or something in the kitchen. I've got a little one over there. You can have little things that put the light through the canals to some receptors. They're called human child, kind of like headphones. So things kind of move along. I mean, all it means that I know that in my room right now. And if you I know people might not be able to see this and it always messes around. But just grab yourself a little free light meter from the App Store and put it down onto your device as well. OK, and that looks you can see that. Yeah. What's it say at the moment? It's like one fifty one one fifty one that in ten thousands right now I'm actually in quite a brightly lit room. There's windows just to you know, if I go another meter just using the light because I can see where you're at right now if you download something onto your device a little free like me.


Nick Littlehales: [00:10:08] So I'm only choosing is the camera. I just move out that's doing all these adverts now because it's free. I'm just going up towards that lamp. It's over a thousand now, but I'm still quite a way away from it. Yeah. If I got closer to my elbow, I've just pointed out of the window, you can't see that now. It's going to my just pointed out the window and it's over three thousand locks. That's the length of my arm. OK, that's the length of my arm. It's one fifty one and three and I go near the window, it's probably six or seven thousand. If I just put my hand out the window, the other side of that glass, it could be seventy thousand looks.


Nick Littlehales: [00:10:48] But so the difference between me sat here talking to you and you talking to me is one hundred and fifty looks. Yeah. The difference, one metre that way. Either closer to a lamp or to a window. Yes. Thousands of locks. Yeah.


Jase Kraft: [00:11:04] So. So you want to get the ten thousand locks and that's you x just for anybody listening.


Jase Kraft: [00:11:11] And within that first period of the day to set the circadian rhythm to, to tell your body, hey, stop making a serotonin or think I'm saying that.


Jase Kraft: [00:11:23] Right,


Nick Littlehales: [00:11:26] It's to stimulate serotonin because that's the way. And then when you get towards the back end, the third phase of the day song and it's about moving towards the end of your day and towards midnight is that you start you're thinking about diminished life. So I don't want to be getting exposed to this stuff, all that stuff. But even sat in your office where I'm sat now isn't diminished like that. It's quite right. So inactive, it tends to be in the dark. This is melatonin land, which is the hormone that's produced by dark and diminished light. So, yeah, this is me in recovery. SAT here right now. If I want to stimulate activity, I move closer towards the light. So when you think about these little ninety minutes every. And it's might just pop that lamp on, it's on for 50 minutes just to keep my serotonin levels when I moved to that particular phase, I don't start exposing myself to those, but it doesn't mean to say I'm not active. I can still be exercising. And it's only when you get a relationship of the strength of that life. So you woke up this morning and you're in your office room and you're doing your stuff and you can you can very quickly go that maybe the first two hours of your day has been in two hundred looks average, but you go, well, that ain't ten thousand bucks.


Nick Littlehales: [00:12:49] That's a mile away. Fine. So we don't want people wandering around going, oh, god, I've got to have ten thousand looks all around me all the time. It's not, it's about certain key points and even a little seop 30 minutes in the afternoon. My little cycle, if I don't feel I'm going to go into sleep, I'm still going to do it. I might do those breathing exercises and do some meditation. When I keep saying I do these things, I'm talking about my clients. I'm just a couch. Yeah, I might just sit and look out the window with a bit of alarm because, you know, I just want to enjoy the evening and I just want to be stimulated. Mood of motivation, that's as well. So I think that's when it starts to become, you know, what's that got to do with sleep?


Nick Littlehales: [00:13:37] And I think that's why the elite athletes in all sorts of different sports snowboarders, EA Sports is you've got professional poker players, like you said, Olympic women's rowing teams all over the world, all sorts of all different age groups, sort of when you start going, wow, this is really sort of practical stuff that if I just structured my day like this, I don't have to think about it.


Nick Littlehales: [00:14:02] Six, eight, eight becomes nine thirty eleven to twelve thirty two I to three thirty. I don't want to think about it. Yeah. I don't have to have a wristband that goes off every 90 minutes. I don't have to have that. It's just like well so you want me to do that. I'll just do this now. And the more you tell people about it the worse it gets because it's yeah it's like sometimes I could be doing a controlled recovery period just because somebody else thinks I'm a good listener. So they're talking away, explaining something from that. I am conscious now. I'm just drifting, just. 


Jase Kraft: [00:14:41] Not concentrating on.


Nick Littlehales: [00:14:43] And it's a nice place.


Nick Littlehales: [00:14:44] You know, I could fall asleep anywhere. And it's on planes, trains, couches, bunk beds, your friend's house, hotel rooms on the floor in a tent, in a camper van up the side of a mountain. You know, you can fall asleep anywhere on a city by the side of a swindell Honouliuli. You can sleep anywhere, but also behind the wheel of a car or a truck on an autobahn or a motorway. That's a bit crazy. Why would you choose to fall asleep on the wheel of a car? Know we have this in the UK all over the place and it's very common. Tiredness can kill. Take a break on the walls. It's like so your brain could actually put you into a microsleep when you're going along 50, 70 kilometres an hour in a very fatal situation. So that just shows you that the more you have a a more synchronised rolling process with this and all these little things. And quite frankly, because the younger athletes, they just go, all right, you tell me to use my device instead of not use it. Yeah, but let's use it. Well, what's your look right now? 208 stand over there. Three thousand. Right. Where is the coach going to train all the athletes over there? Not here, no. And then sports and organizations that you mentioned, British cycling and stuff like that and things, we've done it just like.


Nick Littlehales: [00:16:06] So actually the coach normally stands this side of the room and talks to all the players. That side of the room tactics. This I tell you, I'll just turn around, put them in three thousand energy wave lock stuff, daylight blue thing there. But the gaffer there, and they're more likely to say more into motion, be more motivated to take on all the plays and the things they're trying to learn. And as I was just moving them from there to there. Yeah. Now, that is not a marginal game. That is we out. This is crazy. It becomes a bit more. I've actually got a recovery active program, so stop thinking about being asleep and doing nothing and wasting valuable time. Now I'm more interested in can't wait to get up in the morning. Consistent weight can't do that and do that smashy. I didn't do that to make full use of the twenty four hour process. Probably been more productive. Probably reveal my personal best, more often than not more consistent levels of recovery. Stop worrying about it. I've stopped taking all these supplements and this and that and jumping into tablets and various other stimulating. Things and energy drinks and caffeine, and I'm stopping all of that sort of stuff. Wow, I feel like I'm doing it really well and possibly you probably don't need a tracker to tell you that because it probably will anyway.


Jase Kraft: [00:17:27] Nice. Yeah. So we're we're getting towards the end of our time here. I did have a list of kind of rapid fire questions from athletes that I've talked to.


Nick Littlehales: [00:17:38] Some as quick as I can is that it's always time to speak speech, but it always is one of those little things is this isolated fix this network or what's your top tip or anything? Because that's in our DNA. We don't go to sleep coaches. We don't go to people like this. We just want to like I'm not sleeping very well. Can I have one of those? Right.


Nick Littlehales: [00:17:59] So once you start, all you're trying to catch up on is these sort of decades and centuries of no education, misunderstandings, nobody taking anything for granted, not a performance. And suddenly just trying in a fairly short period of time, like during this podcast is to join these things up. But I would advise everybody, don't go away from this thinking it's all confusing and complicated in a very short space of time. You're talking days. You can just go. Right, right, right, right. Start your little journey, Bangu. Sauti for the rest of your life and you'll stop worrying about it come tomorrow. It's just initially you've not thought about sleeping cycles, probably not at about Kronman. So it's probably not cool about circadian rhythms, probably not realized about how important light is, only how bad it is before you go to bed. You need to have some blue blockers, you know.


Nick Littlehales: [00:18:45] So anyway,


Jase Kraft: [00:18:47] Go as some of these you answered one is it should our sleeping habits change during different seasons?


Jase Kraft: [00:18:57] For instance, it's more dark in the winter. Do I need more sleep in the winter than the summer? What are your thoughts?


Nick Littlehales: [00:19:05] My mind more. My general thing is you want to keep it as consistent as possible throughout all the seasons, because what's happening is if you are living in the daylight saving time shift, which we should get rid of, it's a small percentage of the population. But if you do shift the clocks, the bad thing about the winter period is you get more melatonin periods because of the dark and artificial light. So you feel as though you want to go to sleep more. You feel as though you want to hibernate more, know you're into casseroles rather than smoothies. You know, it's sort of and social behavior changes. Right. So what you want to do is don't let that winter period impact financially, keep the same thing, but you increase your exposure, you know, increase it, but you don't let it diminish. You're not increasing the level of light. You just making sure you maintain all the stuff to do. And you have to be careful when you shift into the summer that just because you can still be on your eleven o'clock at night and there's loads more lights around, that's where it's like under an overexposure. So I would always be twenty four hours consist of wait on. Why change that. Because that helps Brian. Six stages, four faces the threat that doesn't change some guys around and it doesn't change. So I wouldn't change any of that. All I would modify is my under and over exposure to light going through those seasons.


Jase Kraft: [00:20:25] Yeah.


Jase Kraft: [00:20:26] Ok, next, next question. Consistent wake up time. So say I wake up at at my consistent wake up time is five a.m. your time.


Nick Littlehales: [00:20:41] That's when I am on it.


Jase Kraft: [00:20:43] Yeah. Say I wake up and like at four twenty and I'm just awake. Should I go back to sleep or just lay my bed till five o'clock or so. I get up and start doing thing.


Nick Littlehales: [00:20:59] So it's always one of these things. It's a really natural process. So what we trying to put some structure to it. You also have to know the multiple variables that are going on here, right. About a different type of eating habits each day, the different type of social interactions, the different seasons, all sorts of stuff, any different activities.


Nick Littlehales: [00:21:16] So lots of variables into what it is, is what you're saying is you could take five thirty five, forty five, five o'clock, four thirty. You know that if you had complete control of your every day what, you're in control then. I know that six six thirty is my time. One five o'clock is a bit early for me, but over the years I feel that's what it is. It's certainly not seven and eight o'clock. I mean that's midday for us. So what I do is either pick six or six, 30. The reason I pick six or six thirty, because it makes it easy for me to chop the day up into 90 minute cycles. So it's easy. So I think what happens then is because it's that consistent point in there that I might wake up five forty five, ten to six when I pass, I'll never wake and switch that alarm off. That alarm will never wake me up. It's only there to protect myself because. I'm not in control of that period, my brain is, so it's kind of there to create the consistency, but I always switch off lightly. So if I wake at six o'clock, all I do is just I don't worry about it. Just chill out mode and start your day kick, start, you know, six, 30 like you always do.


Nick Littlehales: [00:22:31] You might wake up at six twenty five. You might wake up five forty five. Something's happened, the noise, the sound of this or whatever and just stay in a chilled out mode. I think the bit that gets you is if you start to wake up earlier than your sort of natural, you know, that natural sort of forty five minute period and into consistent welfare. If you start waking up consistently like that, you start your day. When you wake, then you start getting out of sync, then you just say, that happened. I woke up earlier than normal. If you woke a full 90 minute cycle before six thirty. So I woke up at five o'clock and there's probably some reason for that which I could establish throughout the rest of the day. But what I would do is remain in a chill outside. I would not start going and having showers and starting my day because I just woke up five o'clock. Just that's the way it is. I might catch up on some reading or just sit and relax, chill and no lights and stuff and just say, OK, I woke up a bit early, not worried about that, but I don't start my day until six and as long as I can. And that's fine. And it's a bit like at the end of the day.


Nick Littlehales: [00:23:37] Mine is twelve thirty to take the pressure off phase three. Otherwise I'd be asleep at eight o'clock. Is it. I'm not targeting to be absolutely getting it. Twelve twenty four curled up asleep at twelve thirty my four cycles. Wait six thirty on the dot. This is not what this is about. What I do is make sure that I have wandered into that space at eleven thirty, twelve o'clock I wandered into that area where I might present myself to sleep and fall asleep quite quickly. Or it might take ten or fifteen minutes. But what I know is, is that I'm in that space and then during that period it's not going oh we're going to do one 90 minute cycle finishes exactly. At twelve thirty two. And then two is what you're doing here. It's about rolling through this process. So you're presenting yourself in and around that space. So at least you are asleep state before that. Twelve, thirty or around. Then Brian will go through these nice processes and you'll have this consistent way. So it's more of a, it's more of a subconscious process of this is what you're attempting to do. Don't worry about being too specific. You have to be conscious of is if if it isn't quite working for you, let me set it.


Nick Littlehales: [00:24:59] So if you were on, say, five cycles a night between eleven and six thirty, that's five cycles. So you could do it every night. You'd have to think about a bit if you start waking up early and it starts with what you do. It's called sleep restriction. Sounds a bit scary that but all it is is resecting. So what you do for period time, you just go on a cycle to twelve, thirty restricted to six hours consistently. And the sooner you start sleeping through again, you go back to five. Right. If it's really you go on to the next cycle, two a.m. to eleven, twelve, thirty two and then restricted to four and a half hours and three cycles. Right. Because the leader is just trying to reset into that sunrise first and then you can go back again and they use that in clinics. It's called sleep. So you've got that tooling about to help with that. What you avoid going to bed early and sleeping and later trying to catch it because that just messes around. It's just it's messing around. The sun doesn't. So, oh, you've got a bit of a bad week. We won't get the sunrise at five forty five, but we'll do an hour later just for you. Yeah.


Jase Kraft: [00:26:03] That last question has to do on wearables, which you touched on. We obviously there's a bunch of street sleep trackers on the market with Garmin, Fitbit and Blup Fitness Band claims to be the best sleep tracker on the market.


Jase Kraft: [00:26:20] Is there any one that you that you personally use or that you have athletes use or do you not worry about sleep trackers at all? Because at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter as long as you're getting your consistent stuff.


Nick Littlehales: [00:26:34] It's such it's such a you know, it's difficult to because in sports, if you can't measure it, you don't do it in some respects. So but I think the general thing is, is there are companies like those and there'll be more tomorrow on the radio to advance technology that will continue to develop research and data. The more people keep using them, the more you get that research.


Nick Littlehales: [00:26:59] And so it's like catching up with nutrition and exercise, which we know about HIV and stuff. So when you get to this moment in time, although there's been a lot of progress over the last few years, we're still in the very early stages. So. There's already a medical term for the anxiety and stress that's created by sleep tracking details that you look at. I mean, that could also insomnia.


Nick Littlehales: [00:27:20] So you got I think a lot of it sometimes is does that does the details that you're getting actually relate to how you feel? I got a lot of that sort of looked at the track and it said it wasn't like that, but I feel great. It says I feel great, but I don't feel great. So I think you really want to be tracking it from the frontal lobe of your brain. That's where we sort of see it. There are various things that are coming along, but I think there is a general thing is you can't move from take it for granted, not a performance criteria, and suddenly shove it into that space. But a lot of a lot of the athletes and organizations, when we've ever brought tracklist in, you know, they've been around for a long time. When we level truckers to measure this area, we've always ended up sort of going, this is too intrusive, this is too intrusive. It's a personal space. It's something you do away from your sport, with your family, with your friends in your own home or in a hotel room. It's kind of it's part of what you're doing is human performance, but it's sort of like we really should concentrate on other more practical approaches because there's so many variables.


Nick Littlehales: [00:28:26] So I think the point is, unless you've been tracking and collecting data for decades through every single season, birthday parties going on holiday, illness, injury, is this that old unless you've been collecting all of that detail, then effectively all it's basically doing is sort of it's just another set of tracking which you can use into other areas of life.


Nick Littlehales: [00:28:48] So whilst I don't want to sound it in the slightest, not all, but I think we always focus on you've got to redefine your approach first to have some consistency in that process. And then if you do bring that level of tracking in, at least you've got to you've got to have a really good track. And I don't think we sort of found that just yet. All that's clinical. So there's a bit of a go. So I think most the times, if somebody redefines their approach, what we've been talking about today and lots of other things. Yeah. Once you've done that, it's almost a requirement to actually start measuring. It doesn't become so important. So it's nice to get some data, but it's in practice is less if that makes sense. You want it to. It's nice to know what's going on in a way. Yeah, but how much it impacts on you is is it ever going to say to you that you slept so badly last night, you know, however you want to put you slept somebody last night, you can't take your kids to school or you can't train or you can't play in the in that game tonight. I'm not sure we're ever going to get there. Probably not in my lifetime, maybe. Maybe. But I don't think it's ever going to be that critical where there's lots of little bits, you just go, no, you can't play tonight. It's an injury. We've done some measurements. You can't do it that way. So it's easier to look at that. But I think we're a long way off. So unless it's going to be a performance criteria for you, I'd be cheating with a little bit of caution.


Jase Kraft: [00:30:23] Ok, yeah. So something that personally, if you if you used it, it's not a bad tool. But don't don't create anxiety around it. If you have you know, if if the data says it's a bad night's sleep because the data is only as good as what it can measure and interpret.


Jase Kraft: [00:30:44] So and that's with anything and the same, they always say, you know, I'm sure that in your sports tracking is quite key to you. And oh, yeah. So you kind of think like it's almost better to ask you the question rather than maybe the question is, is that you push the boundaries and you go right to the edge. And just I know data that's being produced means I'm on the edge of this, but you still probably keep going, always pushing boundaries. So I think how does that relate to this thing that you're doing? Nothing. So I think it's wonderful that you've got you're collecting data with something. You're choosing to do it. That's how you do it and that's how you push it. You get data that correlates to that. But when you're asleep, you're out of control. So it kind of feels like what sort of benefit does it give you? You know, are you tracking your sleep?


Jase Kraft: [00:31:37] My watch that I was tracking just recently broke, so I'm getting on. But yeah, I was I was tracking the Garmin watch and just how much deep sleep I was getting in that kind of stuff. And I guess I didn't put too much stock into it.


Jase Kraft: [00:31:54] But it's nice to know that your heart rate resting heart rate at night is a good indicator for me. Like how good a shape I'm going to am in if it's the lower I get, like, OK, now I'm in that shape. Where? I was in the back when I ran this time or whatever, and then after I work out, it doesn't get down as low. So it's it's like, OK, I'm not like I'm still recovering from that past workout. So those are the kinds of indicators I take from it. It's more of a recovery. Analytica Like where am I at in my overall recovery from my program rather than had I didn't sleep the best last night. It's more of I don't sleep as deep because maybe this happened, but that's OK. That's kind of the approach that I take.


Nick Littlehales: [00:32:49] Yeah. So it's kind of a reflection on what happened while you're awake. Is this reflection or maybe that's what's going to be revealed in the data? And I think that's the point. You kind of already know what's coming down here. Yeah, well, that's probably what's going to happen tonight while I'm asleep. It is going to drop down to that. So you already know that in some respects it's sort of like revealing itself in the morning. Oh, my God, I got 50 percent deep sleep. I should be running around. That's not a week load in one night. Where does that come from? That's exactly the world. Is that. So if you do, you're going through your day and things happen and some of them are going to be negative or push you to this positive and they're all going on. You sort of kind of think, well, yeah, I tell you, I'm not even going to try and do 12, 13 tonight. I'm actually going to shift it to AM because I just want more time to do other things and to put those things in context. So I get the best out of those three cycles rather than four. And I might drop a little 30 minute cycle in the day as well as a little early evening one, because that's how the days go. So what I start to do is knowing that these things impact on that period and switch to things, which is rather than watching what's going to happen, I already know what's coming. So I just adjust it before it gets there and just help it. So I think the more you use it, the better is it gets very, very nervous.


Jase Kraft: [00:34:28] And so somebody is listening and they want to connect with you, whether they're an athlete and want to learn more about your arsenide technique and maybe work with you or coach wants to work with you.


Jase Kraft: [00:34:43] How what's the best way to get in touch with, you know,


Nick Littlehales: [00:34:45] The best place to go in sport? Sleep coach DOT comments. The website is a very simple and straightforward site. This is not only coaching services, but it's also got some of the key products that we use as far as creating a home. So you get some troubleshooting. So it's not a retail site. It's just that's what we use. The coaching services have been developing, trying to make the more easy access, low investment, because we're still only touching a small percentage of the population, even though it's a big subject. So if you go to the website, you can see you can obviously get yourself my very simple book to read, which is a great place to start. It's simple and inexpensive. There you go.


Nick Littlehales: [00:35:27] Yeah, the English version is better, though, if you go back to that page blank pages. Yeah, there are also the the um and quite a lot of the text has been changed because it's American versus the rest of the world. So the first is that we've got 50 languages now. It's just been published in Brazil and Taiwan last week. That's a little English couple. Anyway, I'll have to listen to it and you can audible it already. Now, that's that's a nice, easy place to start. And for some, that might be good enough. Right. There's a little audible course on the website, but easy access. Just listen to some ten sessions. That's another good place to start. This is very simple coaching services where somebody just completes a profile. It's all done virtually all just especially against these key indicators. The online technique we jump on call like this, which is obviously been intensified and you can type around your bedroom, you can show me products, we can have a chat. We go through that, you get a deck and off you go and do that. Right. Then there's a levels where, you know, you can just go on. And at the moment, a lot of things are very much focused on on the virtual couch. Yeah, we're putting stuff out on social media all the time, free content all the time.


Jase Kraft: [00:36:53] And the values, sport, sleep,


Nick Littlehales: [00:36:56] Sports, league culture on Twitter, Instagram, we've got LinkedIn profiles, but we're always producing lots of blogs. We give a lot of selective podcasts, I have to say, because in twenty six years ago, I wasn't the. Just no such thing as a podcast. Yeah, and now everybody's podcasting, so we do try and help raise the awareness, but we try to be a little bit more selective these days of who we jump on with. But so the podcasts are always good, low to free content loads of blogs. And the strange thing is there is a little button on the website which allows you to schedule a call and you can talk to us directly for just about anything you want. So awesome, because all of our athletes are at the top end of the level. I'm coaching 12 year olds, eight year olds in sports that have no relevance whatsoever to the rest of the world, you know. So all of our services and our whole approach is very much on a level tries to make it as accessible to as many people to and obviously at this moment in time, it's driven by virtual services and probably will be for the foreseeable future.


Jase Kraft: [00:38:08] Yeah. So I'll have links to all that. And the show notes if you haven't already get the book, Sleep by Nick Little Heils and I'll check out his website. There's a lot of good stuff there and follow him on Instagram.


Jase Kraft: [00:38:25] It's it's a pleasure chatting with you, Nick, and thank you for Buss in our podcast with your presence.


Nick Littlehales: [00:38:32] That's great. Thanks for having me on. You have a great day.


Jase Kraft: [00:38:35] Thanks.


Jase Kraft: [00:38:36] All right. Episodes over. If you found value in this episode, please consider giving us a review on iTunes. And if you haven't already yet, subscribe do so now. So you don't miss any important topics in the coming week. If you have any questions or suggestions for the show, please send them my way. I am most responsive on Instagram that @jaecheese, J A E. Cheese like the food or email me directly at


Nick Littlehales

Sport Sleep Coach

Nick has developed the R90 Technique that has been proven time and time again to improve sleep for elite-level athletes. This is outlined in great detail in his book Sleep The Myth of 8 Hours, the Power of Naps, and the New Plan to Recharge Your Body & Mind. He has quite the resume when it comes to working with elite athletes and coaches. Among those that he has consulted includes Team Sky, Manchester United, Liverpool, Manchester City, New Zealand’s Olympic Rowing Squad, and various coaches within the NBA, NFL, and MLB.