Dec. 22, 2020

09 How to Get to the Starting Line Healthy - Sandy Gross

09 How to Get to the Starting Line Healthy - Sandy Gross

Sandy is a functional movement specialist and a self-proclaimed movement optimist. And right about now, you are probably thinking to yourself. What the heck is a functional movement specialist? Well, I’ll tell you this. What you’ll learn in this episode will absolutely blow your mind. She has extensive experience with NCAA, professional athletes, and coaches including the 2016 NBA Champion Cleveland Cavaliers working with their team to develop strategies to prevent injury, come into every practice and competition with muscles ready to go, and guiding athletes to take control of their own recovery practices at home. 

Her superpower is simplifying the complex, which is good because we are going to get into movement science on an audio-only podcast, so buckle up and get ready to take some notes. (or if you driving, just pay attention) 

Notable Links:

Sandy’s Union Fit Profile:

Muscles & Meridians Book: 

Therapy Ball Education: 

Purchase Therapy Balls:


Sandy’s Information:






Jase’s Information:






Jase Kraft: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of The Science of Sports Recovery podcast, I promise you are going to love this episode today. But before I introduce our guest, I need to say one quick thing. I love hearing your feedback, whether it's an email or a review on iTunes, it helps me understand what you like and what you don't like. So I can make this podcast better for you. I mean, it's great for me because I get to talk to a bunch of awesome people about something that I love. But I want to make sure that this podcast is good for you. So send me an email. Leave me a review. Call it your Christmas present to me. One more thing. You can check off your list now to introduce our guest today. Sandy is a functional movement specialist and self-proclaimed movement optimist. And right about now, you're probably thinking to yourself, what the heck is a functional movement specialist? Well, I'll tell you this. What you'll learn in this episode will absolutely blow your mind. She has extensive experience with the NCAA professional athletes and coaches, including the twenty sixteen NBA champions, Cleveland Cavaliers, working with their team to develop strategies to prevent injury, coming to every practice and competition with muscles ready to go and guiding athletes to take control of their own recovery practices at home. Her super power is simplifying the complex, which is a good thing because we're going to get into some movement science on an audio only podcast. So buckle up and get ready to take some notes unless you're driving. Then just pay attention and listen to this again when you get home or listen to the parts that you want to listen to when you get home.


Jase Kraft: [00:01:54] Ok, let's get into it. You're listening to the Science of Sports Recovery podcast. Each week, we explore how to recover more efficiently from training so you can work out harder and realize your full potential. This is the Science of Sports Recovery podcast.


Jase Kraft: [00:02:28] Hey, Sandy, it's great to have you on the show. I'm so excited for our conversation today.


Sandy Gross: [00:02:33] Hi, Jack. Me too. Me too. Thank you for having me.


Jase Kraft: [00:02:37] Well, I want to start with behind every. Great.


Jase Kraft: [00:02:42] Professional in the athletic industry lies an athlete. So and I know you've helped the Cleveland Cavaliers. You've had all these great people that you've worked with, but I want to know a little bit about Sandy, the athlete I believe you started, and soccer.


Jase Kraft: [00:03:03] Is that correct? And tell us a little bit about the athlete.


Sandy Gross: [00:03:07] Yes, I was six years old, little on the young side back then. Nineteen seventy one just dated myself. Now, my dad had a beer drinking buddy who was a former professional German soccer player. His name was Paul Stern early and his daughter was also six. So. Paul wanted him to start a girls soccer team, and it was the first time ever that Girls Soccer became a league in nineteen seventy one. The organization was called American Youth Soccer Organization, AYSO, famous organization. And I played for 10 years. My dad was the coach and Paul Sterling for a few years. And then we kind of go off into our different ways from there as we get interspersed on different teams. But I played till I was about 16 and and then I changed course. I did not play in high school or well, I didn't play for the high school team I played. Recreational.


Jase Kraft: [00:04:06] Ok.


Jase Kraft: [00:04:07] Do you remember why soccer was is that something your parents did or.


Sandy Gross: [00:04:14] Well, I think it was growing, I grew up in Southern California and it was a thing and boy, soccer was a thing and this was this one dad's attempt, among some others, to create a girl's soccer league and roped in my dad, the assistant coach, a team. And so he's like, we're going to play soccer. And I think I remember being like, OK, let's do it. I remember the hard work being kind of a drag at first, but then I really got into being on a team fun for our team name was called The Runarounds, because that's really all we did at six, you know. Yeah, there's a photo of the kids and the big banner that the moms made, you know, runarounds. And we were so proud.


Jase Kraft: [00:04:58] I think soccer is a pretty common sport to start with. That's one of the first sports I remember playing to, is that and I think t ball and wrestling were kind of my three that I started when I was too young to understand what was going on. And all that is literally just running around doing what the coach says, but not really listening because we don't understand type of deal. So so after 16, did you play any other sports or or just.


Sandy Gross: [00:05:33] I swam. I swam, I did synchronized swimming and swim team, and I loved synchronized swimming, didn't like swimming laps so much, but that was the conditioning. If you had to do so in order to do the dance piece that was synchronized swimming. And I did diving for a short bit sophomore year, 16 hits, and I decided to abandon ship and become part of the drill team in the marching band, which was another form of movement. It wasn't as serious a sport or athletic, but it definitely filled an interesting move. I was a mover. I likes to move. I was always outside. I had a classic 70s Southern California upbringing. I was always outside on my skateboard and roller skates. And you felt safe being out and your parents would call you for dinner and then you come in and then you go right back out again. Yeah. So I was always a mover and skateboard bikes. We rode our bike to school. We walk to school. It was a wonderful time. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I should switch to Dancing Marching Band and that was a different creative outlet that I was ready for. Soccer also got super competitive and I wasn't as strong as some of the other girls. Or maybe I wasn't, I wasn't as brave. I didn't like getting hit with the ball in the face. I didn't like getting tackled even though that wasn't supposed to happen to certain athletes were just tougher. I just lost my nerve of being so tough I didn't want to get hurt. And I think that's a huge drop out time for kids between the ages of 13 and in high school, when a lot of kids lose their nerve or don't get accepted on the team, they're not good enough. And I remember having those feelings, but there was something else calling me so I didn't care.


Jase Kraft: [00:07:21] Yeah. Yeah.


Jase Kraft: [00:07:24] Ultimately, that's what that's how I got into running rather than football. I didn't make the decision. My brothers did. They were tired of getting beat up and football. There were like six but one hundred and thirty pounds dripping wet. So like they weren't cut out for football but they went out for cross country. And I was like, well, I'm going to do whatever my brothers do, so just follow them there. So I never had that contact sport experience in my teenage years. But cool. So you're a mover and makes sense that you get into kind of the movement specialist as a career. But I reckon it wasn't just a straight path from sixteen year old you been moving to, hey, I'm going to be a functional movement specialist. So how did you get there?


Sandy Gross: [00:08:19] Well, let's see, I finished high school, went to college to study journalism and advertising business minor, and I toyed with radio, TV and film, and I took five years to get through college because I changed my major a few times and then eventually settled on journalism and. It was right in the eighties when aerobic dance was becoming a thing, Jazzercise was morphing into health clubs were being built out in California, and my parents had joined a club and an aerobics dance sort of reminded me of twirling a flag and being on the drill team. So I joined some aerobics classes and I loved how it was. Dance oriented and group oriented and team oriented in a way. So I was lucky to have caught that wave when it hit. But in college, I also took an elective course one semester called. It was a six unit lab course called Elements of Human Performance, and I was really interested in perhaps changing my major again for like, no, no, you're a junior now and you're already going to take an additional year or so. That class lit me up. I remember focusing on it. One hundred percent. I got a straight I even had to get permission to get in the class because it was not a you know, it was a class. You had to be on the path for human performance performance degree. But I somehow weaseled my way and I forget how, but I did so well know I loved it and I I remember going home to my parents saying I want to change my major.


Sandy Gross: [00:09:56] And they were like, finish what you started. You can always change the course. I think they were my dad. I remember saying. Your options are going to be to teach high school PE and what else I mean, back then there weren't so many careers in the sport field. He wasn't wrong. But we know now that I forget some of the college tours I've heard from my own kids where a large percentage of the jobs of the future don't even exist yet. So I'm glad I can be open minded like that with my kids because parents are just trying to do the right thing for their kids. So they were able to finish my degree in journalism. I worked in advertising and business and. I jumped right into working for a sports magazine that was the that job sort of let me out because it kind of combined my interest in both fields. I also ended up getting certified to teach aerobics in nineteen eighty six, the first year a certification was ever offered. So I was able to finish, you know, dance and aerobics and jump right into being a teacher. And that was always my side hustle. All through my 20s, I would move to a different city and teach at a health club and immediately have a connection to people in fitness and and make a little money on the side. Kept me fit.


Jase Kraft: [00:11:09] Yeah. So. So when did you decide, like, you're going to go all in on your side, hustle the.


Sandy Gross: [00:11:19] Well, I was working for the sports magazine, was exposed to a lot of really cool trends and industry things and trade shows I would get to go to. Then I also moonlighted on cruise ships. They would hire an aerobics instructor to travel for free or for pay. I did a few different gigs like that, so I got to see the world a few times. Then on one of the cruise ships, I met my husband, my now husband, and we had a long distance relationship for a while. I ended up falling in love with him. I ended up moving to Cleveland, Ohio, where I live now twenty six years ago for love. And it was when we were deciding to start a family and have kids that I decided to not go into sales here in Cleveland and not pursue a business career, but to choose to teach fitness classes and do personal training. So I got certified to be a trainer twenty six years ago and did a little bit of that while we prepared to have kids. Also, and I did some writing for a local fitness and sports magazine here, I had a fitness column once a month there. So I got to combine my my degree with my love for fitness.


Jase Kraft: [00:12:32] Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. So Love brought you to Cleveland and then to Cleveland. You got to then go ahead.


Sandy Gross: [00:12:42] So then in Cleveland, I started to get into yoga because I had a nagging neck injury that was not going away from any doctors, physical therapists, X-rays, MRI. Nothing was really structurally wrong. And one doctor said to me, after a few years of struggling. He said, you know, you've had a very tumultuous few years, exciting, nonetheless, in uprooting your life, moving to Cleveland, getting married.


Sandy Gross: [00:13:09] My mother also battled breast cancer during that time. So the doctor said to me, you know, I think that you should do two things. There's nothing structurally wrong with your neck. I think that you should do.


Sandy Gross: [00:13:20] I think you should try yoga, and I think maybe you should try some talk therapy, and I remember leaving his office really pissed to talk to a therapist. I go to see a therapist and he he had an inkling that this was bigger than. Muscular, it certainly wasn't anything structurally wrong with my neck, so I did both, I sought out a therapist and sorted through some of my challenges, which again were exciting, but nonetheless, a lot of change in just a few years for me. And I did that for about six weeks and I also tried yoga and I stayed with yoga. I ended up being a true student of yoga for a couple of years and then deciding there was an opportunity to open a yoga studio here. First, I rent a room just taught in this rented room at a health club, and then I. We my husband and I decided it was time to. Search for some real estate and build out real yoga studio. So I did that and I ended up owning a yoga studio for over 20 years. It was called evolution yoga. And it was a nucleus for teachers and people to just learn about yoga. I had a lot of workshops where people would travel from all over the world to teach. That was the cornerstone for why I wanted to have a bigger studio. I wanted to be able to host educational content for myself to learn and grow and for the community to grow. And that was my favorite part of having a yoga studio. Yeah. Yeah. So so I eventually got certified and then I started training teachers and just have been a voracious student of the body for as long as I can remember, since that college course. And I traced it all the way back to soccer and my dad teaching me to be an athlete and to be embodied, to be in my body and understand and know my body and respect it.


Jase Kraft: [00:15:11] Yeah.


Jase Kraft: [00:15:12] Now you call yourself and other people call you a functional movement specialist. Somebody listening right now say, OK, what's the difference between a yoga instructor or a teacher? Or functional movement specialist.


Sandy Gross: [00:15:32] Well, one of the things I realized I was in over my head with a little bit as a yoga studio owner was that people would come to yoga and say, well, my doctor sent me, I have neck pain, I have children and I have back pain. And my doctor said I should try yoga. And I was like, oh, OK. Yeah, yoga is great, let's go. But my only course of action to help somebody in a group class was to say, well, if you can't do this part of the class, just take a child's pose or here's a block, make it easier. And I felt like that was not enough. So I just I sought information on my own with the student to try to be more helpful. I always love props. I always loved making things workable. I never really subscribed to one teacher, one style of yoga, even though I did get certified in one method. And that teacher was a very impactful teacher for me. It wasn't it gave a lot of room for me to still explore the physical side of what was appropriate for myself and my students. I'm grateful for that. And then I just started using the Internet to study what I could find Google problems. I would find people of inspiration. I would read their content by their videos by there. I really learned a lot on the Internet at first. That was the way I gained and grew.


Jase Kraft: [00:16:53] It sounds like you take like yoga a step further. You're not necessarily learning the yoga.


Jase Kraft: [00:17:02] I mean, obviously you had to learn the yoga, but you're learning the body beyond what the moves are actually doing.


Jase Kraft: [00:17:10] So does that kind of sum it up pretty?


Jase Kraft: [00:17:14] I mean, like you're learning how the body is supposed to function and then putting yoga into that kind of.


Sandy Gross: [00:17:25] Yes, at first, yoga is about teaching what you were taught in your teacher training, like here's the fifty five poses or whatever that are pretty common in yoga class. But I began to personalize it for people and I began to teach smaller classes in a smaller room with more props and more specialization for each person. I started to do privates and have a strong interest in helping people solve problems. And so I felt like my toolbox needed more than. Then those certainly those classic fifty five or so yoga poses, so I sought out other ways and other modalities I had also when I lived in California, I took many classes in other modalities in mind, body practices, somatics, for example, the Alexander technique or Feldenkrais. I took a lot of courses in what's called somatic movement mind body movement. That doesn't that isn't about yoga. So I drew on those old things and I thought, oh, I'm interested in helping the person and I just need a broader toolbox. And then I sought out a form of training, a certification called Yoga TuneUp. That I'm now a teacher trainer for that brand and learned a lot more about anatomy and using self massage tools, rubber therapy balls to teach people how to do their own joint mobilizations and soft tissue health care. I learned more novel ways to move and to contextualize yoga and movement shapes based on what that person's life needed, and that opened my world into a much bigger place. And my students started becoming athletic individuals, hearing that I had a special room called the School Room, where we had these classes called jungle yoga, yoga, mobility and yoga. And so I started to draw an athletic crowd.


Jase Kraft: [00:19:18] Awesome. Awesome. So that kind of takes us to the Cleveland Cavalier conversation, which I know a lot of people are dying to hear this. So let's start with two thousand fifteen.


Jase Kraft: [00:19:33] And then why were you or how did you get involved and what you kind of do for the Cavaliers?


Sandy Gross: [00:19:41] Well, if you know anything about Cleveland, those of you listening, Cleveland fans are Cleveland are the best fans for their sports teams. Rain or shine? Win or lose? I have a son and a husband who are avid sports fans, and so you just kind of fall into that when you're here. It feels like a small town from Southern California where I was from, where it's so spread out. It has multiple sports teams. Cleveland is just one football and basketball and baseball. So the head strength coach from the Cavaliers had been an occasional student at my studio over the years, I never really knew him personally, but I knew his name and I'd met him once or twice when he'd come into practice. So there we were watching two thousand fifteen where the Cavs play the Warriors in the championships. In the finals. And they lost in the final game and had three or four unresolved ankle injuries, lower leg injuries, that was very frustrating for me to see everybody in the city to see. But knowing what I knew about soft tissue care and teaching people how to manage their own pain and dysfunction. I literally opened up my laptop at the latter part of the finals when it looks like it was tooth and nail actually wasn't the finals game. It was like game three or game four, where it was another loss for us, the series. And I had the strength coaches email address from the database for my studio.


[00:21:14] So I emailed them and I said, hey, I think I've got something that you should take a look at. I'm watching all these ankle injuries and I think I can help. Let's get together so promptly. The following day after that email, I was a bit surprised, but also not surprised at all. And that began a relationship where once they got through those playoffs and ended up not winning and once they had some downtime, we began to get together and do privates just for him to show him what I could teach him to teach his guys. And I spent about four months working with him and some of the training camp players to help them know how to do their soft tissue care on their lower legs. And then they went on in twenty sixteen to make the playoffs again and and win. And that was a really fun game to watch and Thirith to watch because not only did they win, but they pretty much came out unharmed from ankle and lower leg injury. So that was pretty big. I'm so honored to have a small, you know, connection to that. They are a superior team, superior coaches. I came in, I'm on top of some things and it was a heck of a lot of fun to be a little bit of part of that.


Jase Kraft: [00:22:30] So, yeah, that's an awesome story. And so to a testament to you have to get to the start line or the start of the game healthy.


Jase Kraft: [00:22:42] I mean, bottom line is you can't perform if you're not healthy. And in all sports, I can't think of a sport that lower leg injuries isn't a problem besides maybe swimming or something that non impactful. So let's get into to the injury prevention part of this.


Jase Kraft: [00:23:08] What do you start I know you mentioned soft tissue mobilization or I've probably butter in that. But like, what do you start when you're looking at?


Jase Kraft: [00:23:20] Ok, how do I strengthen my knees and my ankles?


Jase Kraft: [00:23:23] So whether I'm running, whether I'm playing basketball at I'm playing football, I don't get injured as likely.


Sandy Gross: [00:23:32] Well, one of the things I added to my practice for my clients after that experience with the Cavaliers, I looked into functional movement systems, trainings, functional movement, screen FMS, which is a 20 plus year old system of screening movement patterns. And it's pretty much the gold standard in collegiate and professional sports for that. And I got a taste of that when I was working with the Cavaliers. So I thought that is a really interesting thing that I should not only use for athletes that I'm working with, but everyday people could stand to learn about functional movement and how you can spot weakest links or even blind spots, areas you don't perceive very well through a movement screen. I mean, we screen blood pressure, we screen screen for heart disease, screen vision. We need to be looking at what Great Cook, the founder of a co-founder of a functional movement, calls vital signs movement vital signs so that I related to that a lot.


Jase Kraft: [00:24:39] So what is helped? What is a movement screen? When you when you say movement screen, what do you mean by that?


Sandy Gross: [00:24:47] Well, I take them through seven movement patterns and evaluate their score, how they perform, how to score that. Range of motion stuff or yes, like can you do a squat, can you do a hinge? Can you do a single leg stance? Can you do what your shoulder mobility look like? It looks at your joint range of motion in various patterns of movement. And basically it helps. I like it because it helps not only for me to see more clearly how to help a client, but it helps that client to see themselves more clearly because there's a baseline that you should be able to do. And if you can't, you should want to know what you can do, improve upon that. And that's not that's not being done in school. So the normal thing in it, it's a it's a bummer. It really it really could. It really should be. Yeah. So there's a there's a quest by functional movement systems to bring this out of the athletic space. I'm I'm a teacher that's doing that. And I think it's I recommend it all the time to trainers who come see me to help. I just finished working with a woman, a personal trainer who wanted to up her own game working with her clients. And that was one of the huge recommendations I had for her, is this will help you help them better beyond the esthetic part of fitness.


Sandy Gross: [00:26:10] How can you how can you function better? It just helps you see more clearly. And I really that's that's really the definition and meaning of yoga is can you see more clearly? Can you see yourself more clearly? That's what the practice is really about, all about. Can you pay attention and can you see it's about. Sharpening your vision on yourself. So I thought of a mess as a way of helping me help people see how they learned better, because how you move affects how you perform. If you lack ankle range of motion or shoulder range of motion, it will hold you back. It's kind of akin to driving with a parking brake on. You can get a lot done. And young people, certainly collegiate and professional athletes, are young, talented people that make it to that level. But if you've got some dysfunction, you might be able to still play your sport win, but you might not be able to move your shoulder in five years after that depends on your hip or your knee, though. And I really do think that it it the more self ownership an athlete can take at a younger age, the better off they'll be at their sport better the more coachable they'll be. The cues will land better from a coach when an athlete knows what a hip hinges and how they can and how they if they know the form of their squad and if they know how that translates to movements in their sport, it makes someone more coachable and it just makes them more have self ownership when they're off the field or off off the track.


Sandy Gross: [00:27:43] Oh, my hip hurts now I know what to do to help my hip mobility, I know that my hips are tight now. Right now I know what to do. My ankles are tight. My shoulders are tight. And there's a bigger definition to the word tight. What this tightness me in is the problem. Do we always need to stretch something that's tight? I think tight. Tight is a sort of word that represents attentional imbalance. Sometimes that needs a stretch as needed. Sometimes that means a strengthening exercise is needed. Right. You go to physical therapy for an injury and they might teach you some stretches, but they always hand you that little rubber band, do some lower load strengthening exercises. Yeah. So it's all about attentional balance. To improve an area one this and the other is bad, know, it's not that you shouldn't strike train there, you shouldn't go to yoga. You should do both and understand attentional balance for yourself and for the various joints and parts of yourself.


Jase Kraft: [00:28:40] Yeah.


Jase Kraft: [00:28:41] So I like the idea of having, like these movements greens and being able to understand them, to understand, like, am I at risk for something down the road if we're focusing on the knees in the ankles, what are the the main movements that if somebody is listening and say they're listening in their living room right now, what could you take them through of movement and see if they're at risk for maybe some injury in the in the knee or the ankle?


Sandy Gross: [00:29:18] Yes, well, if you stand up right now, I'm going to stand so I can better verbalize what I'm talking people. If you stand up and put one foot, let's put the right foot forward like a like you're taking a walking step forward and then place your left foot behind your right foot so your big left big toe is back up to your right heel. Like I'm standing on a tightrope in a way, right now. And if you keep both heels on the ground and you bend your knees and bend your knees forward, try to keep your back heel down your left, heel down. Can you look down and see your front of your left knee crosses over the right ankle bone, what's called the medial Malula, your inner right ankle bone? Or does it stay behind the right ankle bone or does it protrude past it? Remember, keep that left heel down in the back. So that's called ankle dorsiflexion. And that's something that we look for in FMF and I look for all the time. I don't care what type of athlete or human you are or what you do, because ankles, that lack range of motion will create dysfunction. Something will have to compensate in your your knee, your foot, your hip. It's just the system that has the whole body is a system of systems and needs to function as a whole unit. So things will compensate. So basically infamous. We score a passing score, if you will, if that front knee comes close to the elbow, anything less means you probably lack some ankle dorsiflexion and you could stand to mobilize your ankles a bit.


Jase Kraft: [00:31:04] Ok, you said front need to what you cut out just a little bit.


Sandy Gross: [00:31:12] Oh, I'm sorry. So if you're on that train track with your feet left behind, right foot forward, keep both heels down. Do a little bit of a squat and bend your knees down. You want that left knee to come forward over the right. Ankle bone, so the right what's called the medial is what we think of as the ankle bone.


Jase Kraft: [00:31:34] Ok, but that bone that kind of protrudes that you can touch.


Sandy Gross: [00:31:38] Yes. And it's it's really the bottom of your tibia bone, not its own bone. Yeah. It's a bony landmark of the tibia and it's on your inner ankle. And we often think of it as an ankle bone. Here's a fun fact. You actually don't have an ankle that your ankle. There's no ankle bone. There's no need bone. Right. An ankle is I call it ankle. I call joints a situation. You have an ankle situation. You have a relationship of bones and soft tissue that tries the ankle. So when someone says, my ankle hurts, I'm looking at the foot, I'm looking at the tibia, I'm looking at your knee. I'm looking at the inner part of your ankle, the outer. I'm looking at the arches of your feet. There's a lot that I need to look at to understand and teach you about your ankle and the knee. Same thing. You don't actually have knees. You have two situations. You have two relationships, one in each leg. You've got your tibia bone. That's your lower leg bone, one of them. And you've got your kneecap, which is famous. Right. And you've got your femur, your thigh bone, those three bones and how they relate together with your fibula, another lower leg bone and all the soft tissues that hold that knee joint together. That is the knee. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Jase Kraft: [00:32:56] So when when we go to you're standing on the line, your front, you're doing kind of a squat and your back need doesn't get past that ankle bone or that protruding thing that we would call an ankle bone.


Jase Kraft: [00:33:15] You essentially fail the test. What why? Or obviously there could be multiple reasons why potentially. But what's most common for someone not to be able to flex like that?


Sandy Gross: [00:33:33] Well, shoes love them, love shoes, we have to wear shoes, but they tend to restrict movement in the feet or ankles, especially boots. I live in Cleveland where we wear boots a lot of the time. Right. You've got to and certainly athletic shoes, for example, basketball, ankle top. They're less high at the ankle these days than they used to be. So, yeah, you you need to be able to move your ankles. So shoes are one thing that restrict movement. Just lack of knowledge, lack of understanding. Another reason why as a collective we lack ankle range of motion is that we just don't we just don't bend into that dorsiflexion position enough.


Sandy Gross: [00:34:19] And one of the reasons we don't is we stop at sitting in chairs. If you sit on the floor or you're going to require more ankle bend to get down on the floor and you're going to require more ankle, the bend and straightening to get back up. There's just greater range of motion needed in your ankles, knees and hips when you get up and down off the ground. So one of the first things I recommend to anyone that wants to work on ankle mobility is get down on the floor several times a day. I am sitting close to the ground as I talk to you right now. So I've got a deeper bend in my hip, a deeper bend in my knees. And I have quite dorsa flexed ankle that I'm sitting here talking to you.


Sandy Gross: [00:34:58] So I get credit for doing some mobility on these three joints during this podcast right now. Get off your chair, everybody, and sit down on the floor and change the positions several times. The goal isn't to be static in one position, in a chair or on the ground, but to constructively fidget around during the course of time. For example, listening to a podcast or I try to have my coffee in the morning and do my reading on my iPad while sitting on the floor. And I'll shift positions maybe 10 to 30 times, depending how much time I'm devoting to reading and having coffee so that I've gotten in all my different bends in these joints. And also no joke, your digestive organs shift and move around as you shift around and you're you're on the ground. You're in a subtle sideband in some of these positions and you will feel your lower digestive organs move, including the food within them.


Sandy Gross: [00:35:52] You will have better bowels or no joke.


Sandy Gross: [00:36:00] We have to talk digestion working on your ankles and working on your digestive, sitting on the floor. It's it's there's a wonderful book by Dr. Phillip Veach. He's an osteopath and it's called Muscles and Meridians. It's quite science. So if you're not interested, then really getting into some science. The first half is about embryology and how we were formed as humans from the womb. And then the second half is about what he calls the archetypal positions of rest. And he goes all over all sitting on the ground helps you literally biomechanically to yourself. It's how we used to sit before we had furniture. And there's a lot of wisdom there. And if you look at pictures of tribal people that grew up sitting on the ground, they and been moving throughout their day and walking a lot, they have incredibly toned legs and strong glutes because they're always getting up from the ground. That takes quite a bit of thigh and glute muscle to do that. So it's a great thing to bring into our modern life to rebuild ourselves.


Jase Kraft: [00:37:06] Yeah. So you might not know this, but you're talking to the least flexible runner you probably ever have.


Jase Kraft: [00:37:15] Like at one point in my college career, my motto was stretching as a waste of time before I knew of all this. So I did. Yes, I didn't I didn't do it. And I at one point I could barely touch my knees bending over and stuff. But I married someone really flexible and someone who likes to play board games on the ground and, like, sit on the living room floor instead of at the table.


Jase Kraft: [00:37:44] And boy, my first couple of years of marriage like that hurt sitting on the ground and always make fun of me and stuff.


Jase Kraft: [00:37:52] But now I've gotten used to it and I can tell a huge difference just in especially through my pelvis area. Everything is right looser. And I'm not dealing with low back pain after a very long run and that kind of stuff. So there's definitely anecdotal evidence, at least on my side, that that kind of stuff works so totally works.


Sandy Gross: [00:38:20] It totally works. And it fits in with your day. I mean, who's got an extra half hour to do some stretching every night? It's where everybody's busy. And so, you know, combining things like sitting on the floor while. Doing some reading is a great way to sneak it in. Yeah, or play board games.


Jase Kraft: [00:38:39] Yeah. Yeah. Or listen to a podcast or, you know, with the Cavaliers and stuff.


Jase Kraft: [00:38:49] And you're big on movement prep before competition, before workouts and that kind of stuff, which when I first met you, I wasn't even you. You brought up this term movement and I wasn't even sure what that was for anybody listening. It's essentially getting your body ready for movement you might refer to as part of your warm up. But can you talk to us about why movement prep, like preparing your body for an actual competition or for a workout is so important?


Sandy Gross: [00:39:28] Yes, we know what warming up means, and that means getting some heat into the body, right, to prep the engine for the sport or movement, think of movement prep as just a bit of an advancement of that, meaning doing things specific to the movements you're going to be doing in your sport, like if you're going for a run. We know now that static stretching before a run isn't really the best thing you should do. Save that for after that. But you should do some light jogging. You should work on your ankles. You should warm up your shins. That's what movement prep is. And it's just gotten a lot more sophisticated now, again, with the Internet and and sports performance and seeing these young athletes now playing well into their late 30s. The reason one of the reasons they're able to do that now is because they've gotten more sophisticated about training and warming up and warming down and recovery and sleep and all the things.


Jase Kraft: [00:40:29] So how do you go about finding movement preps at everybody? I mean, most teams, they go through the same set of dynamic warm ups or same sort of warm ups for every person. It's kind of a one size fits all approach. Should there be some variability based on the person or is that one size that as long as it's done right?


Jase Kraft: [00:40:54] Ok,


Sandy Gross: [00:40:56] Yeah. Well, for example, I went to the gym today and I was working on polling the polling pattern, so my warm up consisted of light polling movements. We have a rope or gorm at the gym. That's kind of this machine that is a rope on a loop. And you sit down and you reach up and you it's like you're climbing a rope, but you never actually go anywhere. So I put it on one of the light, very light resistance settings. And I just climbed, you know, probably for two to three minutes. And I really was reaching through my ribcage and getting my arm up overhead. And that was trapping my pulling muscles that I gathered that wrote down with the strap. So or I would jump on a rowing machine. I didn't do it today. I was in a hurry, but I would pull from different angles. So that's one type of movement. I'm always suggesting that people keep a kettlebell in their work office. A lot of my clients are working from home these days, so I suggest they put a kettlebell or dumbbells in their actual office space. And in between, Zoome calls do some deadlifts with lighter weight, just prepping the hip hinge so that you can you can when you're sitting, your glutes are turned off. So when you stand up and do some light deadlifts in your office, you wake up your muscles and the muscles there are there to help stabilize your pelvis and set the position of your pelvis. So it's a great complement to sitting. And and then when you have to go to the gym later that day or you want to go out for a run, you've movement prepped your glutes, your hip hinge, your hip hinge happens with every step you take your hip extension inflection. That's the hinging of the hip.


Jase Kraft: [00:42:48] Interesting. You said your glutes are essentially sleepy and are turned off when you're sitting in a chair.


Jase Kraft: [00:42:55] Is that the same when you're sitting on the floor or is is there difference?


Sandy Gross: [00:43:01] Is there to now pretty much think about it?


Sandy Gross: [00:43:04] If you're sitting right now, your glutes, are they flex? You feel like you need them to flex at all? Not really. They're more like a cushion. So, yeah, we don't need them. But you will use them when you stand up from the chair. And one of the reasons I suggest doing the hip exercise at work is because many times we don't think about putting our mind in our glute muscles and we stand up maybe dysfunctionally. They use more of our quads and maybe we use more of our lower back. And there's no consciousness in the glutes because they've been used as a seat cushion. So no wonder the mind body connection there gets a little disconnected. Sir, and if you're not using your glutes to help yourself stand up, that's the primary movement of the groups. Our hip extension of standing up out of a chair while your lower back might do more work than it really needs to do. And low back pain is a big deal in our culture. So having more awake and glutes is a great way to circumvent that. So you're getting up and down off the floor or a chair. There's opportunity there to use your glutes to stand up. So I just make that conscious with people.


Sandy Gross: [00:44:15] Yeah. So say I'm getting ready for kind of a one dimensional.


Jase Kraft: [00:44:23] Event like the mile.


Jase Kraft: [00:44:26] I mean, it's pretty, pretty straightforward, you're running straight forward.


Jase Kraft: [00:44:30] You don't have to do any arm movements outside of the running motion. And that does that make sense to movement prep or to warm up like some sideways fashion to get hips and other types of movement? Or is it just OK to say as long as you're warming up the muscles that you're going to be use, putting that mind body connection then and you get the body warm? You should be good to go.


Sandy Gross: [00:45:05] Yes. Unless you want to warm up the muscles needed for the thing you're exactly going to do if you think there might be variety in what you're going to need to do. For example, a trail run, you might have to hop a little bit sideways as you go right. To circumvent the terrain you're on. So, yes, that would be a case for doing some side to side movement. Also, you don't really know when you're going to misstep during a run and if you know how to land well or a roll on your outer ankle, for example, if you trained that range of motion and you'll roll your ankle and land a little more gracefully and those tissues won't be surprised when you do roll an ankle. Does that make sense? One of the warm up exercises I use with runners or athletes like basketball players is to walk on your outer edges of your feet as part of your movement. Once again, training that external ankle to have load because it will happen in basketball. It will happen when you're running and you hit a rock or you just trip. Right. So prepared for alternative ranges of motion that aren't normal, be trained to to to have mistakes. In other words, train them to speed the mistakes, be able to land well in the mistakes.


Jase Kraft: [00:46:24] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.


Jase Kraft: [00:46:26] I didn't do any of that stuff in high school and had a lot of ankle, little injuries and basketball. But I did I didn't even know why I was doing it, but I walked on the outside my ankles for warm ups all through college and stuff.


Jase Kraft: [00:46:41] And just the other day I was running an obstacle course race over weird terrain and I rolled both ankles partway through the race and stuff, but I could still run the next day.


Jase Kraft: [00:46:54] So I was like, oh, my ankles must be stronger.


Jase Kraft: [00:46:58] But it leads me to a good point about ankles. And I want to get your kind of take on this.


Jase Kraft: [00:47:05] I know there's kind of a debate between high tops or low tops, especially in basketball, meaning like high tops that might provide a little bit more support, but then it's making your ankles not have to work as hard so they get weaker. What are your thoughts on that?


Sandy Gross: [00:47:28] Well, the athletic trainer, who are pretty savvy these days and know if an athlete needs to be taped and how much you want your feet in training to be able to express themselves fully and your ankles to be able to express themselves fully. But sport, game situations, game time situations are not always normal situations. They are extreme in situations. So for the protection of the athlete, you would tape the ankle and you got to get through the game, especially if you have a tweak there or something that's not feeling quite right. Get through the game. That's that's their job. But if you're playing for recreational purposes, I'm a big fan of not having your ankles strapped up so that you can't use them.


Sandy Gross: [00:48:22] But there's reasons to do that for sure. And a little bit of like a converse high tops sneakers, still going to give you a great range of motion and give you get a little bit of support.


Jase Kraft: [00:48:32] Yeah, yeah. I like the idea of maybe during your warm ups or when you can control the situation, have a little bit more freedom with the ankle.


Jase Kraft: [00:48:42] But when stakes are high and you can't control the other team, you don't know if you're going to where you're going to land, that kind of stuff, have more protection.


Jase Kraft: [00:48:51] I like that philosophy.


Jase Kraft: [00:48:53] So I want to get into the use of therapy balls because I know we touched on that a little bit in the beginning.


Jase Kraft: [00:49:03] And there's I think it's pretty common for especially colleges to have things like foam rollers, lacrosse balls or those kinds of stuff.


Jase Kraft: [00:49:14] But I don't think that we do the best job of educating people on how to use them. It's kind of like foam roll for ten minutes and like how you walk us through.


Jase Kraft: [00:49:30] How maybe we should think about using a therapy ball and what's its of purpose or if there's some common usage. You want to walk us through and go through that?


Sandy Gross: [00:49:43] Well, I started with a foam roll years ago given to me by a physical therapist. And then I started using two lacrosse balls taped together from across the coach I had many years ago. And if some of you listening to Kelly Starret is if you have a lacrosse ball in your gym bag, you know who Kelly Threat is. He sort of made that famous. He's a physical therapist. Strength and conditioning coach and creator of the red state. Used to be the mobility wide, who is a great resource for learning how to do your own mobilizations. I've sort of graduated from those tools and found a company called TuneUp Fitness that makes rubber therapy balls really inexpensive. They are affordable, they are portable, they are grippy and rubber and pliable. And they more like they more mimic the hand of a misuse. Whereas the lacrosse ball is hard and firm and slick, the rubber will, when rolled on your forearm, for example, will create a local stretch or shear or a separation between the skin and fashions and super superficial fashions, deeper Flash's muscle tissues to the bone and back and everything in between.


Sandy Gross: [00:50:59] So again, it's more like this hand. It gets more local movement and local stretch going where the tennis ball is fuzzy and slippery, a lacrosse ball is slick and a foam roll is usually done on top of clothing. And also it doesn't get that shear. So it's a great tool. These are these tools are priced anywhere from 13 to 15 dollars a pair for these balls and upwards of 230 between the 15 and 30 dollar range. Totally worth your investment. TuneUp fitness dotcom is they the manufacturer and also a wonderful resource of blogs and videos and trains. Teachers like me all over the world to learn how to use these tools. And these tools can help with self myofascial release or massage, joint mobilization and what we call embodiment or how to create a deeper sense of perception or proprioception. How to basically live better in your body through touch, through empowerment of learning, how to take care of your own aches and pains with these tools. So it's a combination of one two punch of the superior products with the educational component that our company offers.


Jase Kraft: [00:52:16] Awesome. So we are mimicking kind of that massage from a massage or MITSUSE. And the SPEN documented well, well known kind of the benefits of that, but what are some movements? I mean, obviously or not most people listening haven't gone to massage therapy, school or anything like that. So is it as simple as kind of rubbing it where it hurts or holding it on on where you feel pain or what's kind of your system there?


Sandy Gross: [00:52:57] Well, and compared to a foam roll, again, think of a foam roll as a butter knife. I think of the four different kinds of tuneup fitness therapy bottles. The brand is actually called role model therapy Bolz. They're kind of like having a chef set of knives, like if you go in your kitchen, you're not going to use a butter knife to cut a tomato, right? Nothing would happen. You need a serrated knife for that or you're going to use a you're going to use a paring knife to trim the stem out of an apple or they're going to use a bread knife to cut through a fresh loaf of our different knives for different reasons. So this using learning how to use different tools properly on your own body will make you more of a gourmet chef for how to treat your own aches and pains. And these days, you know. We need to know more to do better for ourselves, because it's with covid just simply calling up the doctor because you have an acre of pain or a sniffle or all being a little more conscious of trying to do things on our own now. So time is even more even more important than ever to learn how to take pain and dysfunction into your own hands to manage. It's very empowering. I've probably saved multiple trips down the medical path because I've circumvented a tweak in a body part because I've known where and how to use the therapy balance as part of my movement prep or recovery to get my joints ready for greater work. Yeah, and it's possible for you to do the same, you know.


Jase Kraft: [00:54:41] And do you do you teach specific classes on how to use the therapy ball for certain and like, say, I had elbow pain or shoulder pain? Do you get that specific on how this is kind of how to open up that area? Because the name of the game essentially is blood flow, if I'm not mistaken, to get blood circulating to that area to help your body kind of repair itself. But do you teach specifics like that and some of the classes that you're doing?


Sandy Gross: [00:55:18] Yes, I do. Ever since covid, I've been teaching virtually I started a virtual studio called Movie Virtual Studio at Union Dot Fit and I teach two classes a week. One is called Self Massage and Mobility. It's a forty five minute evening class, about 8:00 p.m. Eastern time right before bed. And there's always a theme, a body region of the week, if you will. A few weeks ago I did ankle mobility. Last week I did t fine mobility. This week is gut health and t spine. With Thanksgiving week coming everyone down to learn how to treat their gut this week. So yes, that's my Wednesday night class. And then I do a Sunday class called Weekly Reset and Flow, which is the total body yoga inspired class that also goes to therapy. Bulb's a tiny bit movement prep and it's geared towards active and athletic people.


Jase Kraft: [00:56:15] And this is all virtually right.


Jase Kraft: [00:56:18] So you could have anybody who's listening in from anywhere log in to these classes, what you like. Yeah. All along afterwards.


Sandy Gross: [00:56:27] And that adds up to yes, it's a really affordable membership. Or you can just do a drop in class and it's on your computer, get fit. You just go check it out, see what you find there and there. You can search the library and choose whichever class you want or if you're a member, you get I have forty six classes and counting recorded now. So yeah, you can bring this now into your own home. I mean I didn't really anticipate ever doing this with my work, but being quarantined, it forced me to get out of my own box and I needed to help clients to do more at home since we couldn't see each other. And that's kind of how it started. So. I think it's a sign of the times, and it speaks really to my message that we need to treat ourselves, we have to learn how to to self rescue when things happen, and not just because of covid, but because it's your human right to know how to fix yourself. And again, with the Internet, we really can do better at it. Now, in the Internet landscape can be very confusing. You could Google elbow pain and not know what you're getting. And I think there's a lot of really well-meaning people out there trying to help you solve, for example, elbow pain. But if you get with somebody that, you know, this is their career and they studied the human body and they're a teacher of this, I think you can find some. Some. Great sources to help you meet your needs at home.


Jase Kraft: [00:58:02] Yeah, and just a testament to having kind of a lacrosse ball, I have a tennis ball at home.


Jase Kraft: [00:58:11] I don't have anything as far as fancy, but I've been doing some some work.


Jase Kraft: [00:58:19] Under actually understanding what I'm doing has helped a lot just in the last couple of weeks, so I had my obstacle course race, which I rolled my ankles twice, but I also fell off an obstacle, hurt my shoulder and elbow.


Jase Kraft: [00:58:36] Ouch. And this is going to be like a cardinal sin of somebody that hosts a recovery podcast show. But I thought I would just take the week off of not doing arms and I'll get better by itself.


Jase Kraft: [00:58:51] But I come back and I did my first arm workout and it was in pain again and stuff. So I OK, now I have to actually pay attention to it.


Jase Kraft: [00:59:01] So I started doing some tennis ball stuff, work on my shoulder and on my arm, getting in there and in the right spots and I can feel a huge difference. And then just three or four days from actually taking some time intentionally for it. Same with my knee. I did a 16 mile run on Sunday and which I haven't done that long or run in a few weeks. And I had some pretty gnarly trails I was on.


Jase Kraft: [00:59:27] I did some a lot of coming downhill fast and then trying to stop and turn.


Jase Kraft: [00:59:34] And so I was hard on my knees and stuff and my knee was just killing me yesterday.


Jase Kraft: [00:59:39] But again, I got in, got in there with my tennis ball and stuff and I was able to do my workout today without a hitch. So definitely if you're listening, check this stuff out. It works and then can be a game changer for you there, too. So we're getting close to our end, the end of time here, Sandy, but I do have some quick questions for you. And I know or try to keep it a 60 seconds unless you have a great story. We can expand a little bit because we got a little extra time here. But first question I want to ask you here is, have you ever been starstruck by one of your clients?


Jase Kraft: [01:00:27] Because I know you've worked with a lot of famous people and stuff. So if so, if you have been kind of starstruck, who was?


Sandy Gross: [01:00:35] Well, there was a little bit of a star struck, miss, I suppose, when I walked into the Cavaliers facility for the first time, I deny it, but they're just real people with needing to work on their bodies like the rest of us. I did have a starstruck moment when the Ritz Carlton called back in 2010 with a special guest. That's all I was told. And they needed to know if I had availability and if I would type of yoga I taught and if I had a back door entrance, because this was a high profile guest. They had a security team. And I was like, I answered all the questions. Yes. And then twenty five minutes later, I heard a knock on the back door. And all I knew was that this woman was twenty three years old and was free of injuries and just wanting a good yoga class. So I didn't know who it was until the security person called my cell phone at the back door to come around and let them in. And it was Lady Gaga. So that was a bit of a surprise. And I was sort of starstruck. But at the same time, I was a fairly new fan and I had tickets to her show, which was the following day. So when I opened the door and greeted her for the first time, I, I openly gave it her hug. Yoga people give hugs to people. And I just said, hey, I get you, you know, I'm a fan and I'm coming to your show tomorrow night, so let's have fun, you know. Yeah, but it was a little bit of a starstruck moment and two hours for sure.


Jase Kraft: [01:02:07] That's so you had no idea who is coming through that door. You just knew it was a younger woman.


Sandy Gross: [01:02:12] No, no, no. I didn't put two and two together. It was it was quite a surprise.


Jase Kraft: [01:02:19] Yeah, that's awesome.


Sandy Gross: [01:02:24] Yes, that's that that. Twenty five minutes from the phone call to the arrival, I was very, very curious. Like, who could this be?


Jase Kraft: [01:02:32] Yeah. You know, yeah, I could imagine that it's not too often you probably have somebody with a security team.


Sandy Gross: [01:02:43] Yeah. But it kind of made sense to like. Oh yeah, she's I've got I'm going to a concert tomorrow night, you know. Yeah.


Jase Kraft: [01:02:51] So OK. So next question. What is one thing you hear coaches tell their athletes all the time that you wish they would stop. Oh, gosh.


Sandy Gross: [01:03:08] Well, let's open up the, I think conversation I'll just coaches and athletic trainers are still icing in some places. It's fairly recent information that now icing is no longer the go to for. You know, an injury or a tweak, but it is often convenient and available and pain relieving, so I understand while it's still why it's still available, but it's simply a lack of knowledge. We know more now that movement heals, movement cures, and you can Google that and perhaps you'll have someone else on your podcast who can go more in depth on that. But yeah, there you go. I the book, we just know more. Now, even the guy that coined the phrase rice rest ice compression elevation has reneged on his statement of many, many years ago and now recommends light, movement and compression to help continue movement at the site of swelling. It's about managing inflammation, not not stopping the process of inflammation. So I find this when I work with high school teams, their resources are more limited than in the pros or even the D one school where I worked before that. You know, we just know more now, so it's always careful, careful territory, I come in as a mobility coach and for me to try to school the athletic trainer is not it's often stepping on toes.


Sandy Gross: [01:04:41] So I will inform the coach what I know and send some articles his way. And it's up to him to have the conversation with the athletic trainer. But I've had I've had I have one coach I work with who will have a kid go to the athletic trainer, get taped up and get ice packs put on and they come in to see me and he tells the kid to take the ice packs off and work with me so that I have gotten in some I haven't gotten in any sticky situations because the coach has handled the conversation. So you have to be respectful to everybody who's participating in the best interest of kids. And so I'm just one person coming in with my opinions, even though I feel they're correct. It's up to the coach to direct the athlete and instruct them what to do. So that can sometimes be frustrating. But I've had some good coaches that listen and pay attention and are open to growing and changing ideas, which this is a field that that is happening, I think.


Jase Kraft: [01:05:41] Yeah, I think this can definitely be a whole podcast and it's own and I'll be in the future. So stay tuned for that. Subscribe if you're not subscribed so you don't miss the same conversation.


Jase Kraft: [01:05:56] But it does make sense with everything that we talked to up to this point, that mobility would kind of be at the forefront of it, because I've seen essentially is restricting that range of motion. I mean, I don't know. I remember when I would ice something then you feel kind of like really stiff in that joint or because most of the times they're ice joints and stuff.


Jase Kraft: [01:06:27] So it makes more sense. I guess now that I've done more research, people like you to have that movement, rehab or rehab or whatever you want to call it, rather than kind of the stagnant stuff. So.


Jase Kraft: [01:06:47] All right.


Jase Kraft: [01:06:48] Last last question, then we'll tell everybody where to find you and follow up with you. So if you could be the best in the world at one thing besides what you're currently doing, functional movements or yoga or anything related to that, what would it be?


Sandy Gross: [01:07:06] I wish I could be an amazing dancer in my mind, I'm an amazing dancer, but I watch music videos or YouTube clips that my daughter and dance shows and I've always been of dance and dancers of all types from from modern dance that you see in music videos to ballet and modern dance. I, I, I love the art of dance. I gave it up as a thing to do years ago. I just dance for fun.


Jase Kraft: [01:07:41] Now do you like perform at all.


Sandy Gross: [01:07:44] No, no. My kitchen and my kitchen.


Sandy Gross: [01:07:52] But I, I think it's an amazing I'm glad I put my own daughters into dance. They are very they have a love of dance and appreciation of music and movement in general. And they are very body. They, they, they feel like they have confidence in their body. They understand their bodies, power sports.


Sandy Gross: [01:08:12] Does that dance, does that teaching children to be movers even after sports, even like when you finish sport at 13 or 16 or 19 or 20, whenever that ends for you find other ways to move. It's it's it's hard to do. But it's about being a body, which it really means living better in your body and find other ways to do that. That's my number one piece of advice for people aging out of sport or just making a shift on your own. It can be a very difficult transition for people. And it's worth exploring and finding out what else brings you the joy of movement. Because movement heals, movement cures, it makes your brain think better.


Sandy Gross: [01:08:51] It makes you age better, you feel better and you dance. I just would love to be able to to impress others with my dance as much as I as much as I enjoy dancing, you know, I mean, it doesn't matter what it looks like for me, it's just the joy of movement.


Sandy Gross: [01:09:09] But I wish I'll think I'm looking great and then I'll catch a glance in the mirror and I'm like, oh no, that's not the way it looks on the video. Yeah, it doesn't matter.


Sandy Gross: [01:09:20] But I just that's the skill I wish I could dance came as naturally to me as it does others dance and don't give up.


Jase Kraft: [01:09:30] I do that with singing. That sounds good in my head. And then my coach tells me to shut up in the back seat.


Sandy Gross: [01:09:37] Yeah.


Jase Kraft: [01:09:38] So dancing could be a form of like cooling down or warming down, am I right.


Sandy Gross: [01:09:46] Yeah, you're moving. I consider it when I work with some clients doing training certain clients. Appreciate that.


Sandy Gross: [01:09:54] I put in dance breaks nights where it's just like take forty five seconds to just dance, you know, just dance the joy of it. Fun fitness doesn't have to be all about tasks and sweating and stuff. Yeah. It has to be fun.


Jase Kraft: [01:10:11] So, so, so sweet.


Jase Kraft: [01:10:14] Well this is certainly an episode that I won't forget and thanks so much for being on Sandy. It is awesome to have her having.


Jase Kraft: [01:10:23] So if you're listening and you want more Sandy in your life, you can follow her on Instagram at Mobility Mammo or Twitter at Sandy Gross.


Sandy Gross: [01:10:35] And that is S A and D. Y Gross as you can check out her website at mov. Well e d dot com.


Jase Kraft: [01:10:45] She has a lot of stuff going on there.


Jase Kraft: [01:10:46] We kind of mentioned the virtual studio as well, but you can join her online community on Facebook and a bunch of other stuff that she has going on there.


Jase Kraft: [01:10:57] Again, that's move well, e d dot com.


Jase Kraft: [01:11:02] If you don't already have any role model method therapy balls, those are balls that we had talked about.


Jase Kraft: [01:11:10] You can pick some up on her website as well of all the links to our website, her Instagram or Twitter, all that kind of stuff in the show, notes. And Sandy, did I do I miss anything?


Jase Kraft: [01:11:21] Is there anything you want to add on on where people can get in touch with, you know, that's that's great.


Sandy Gross: [01:11:28] Thank you. Yes. My website is called Move. Well, Ed, Butwell, education is the name of my business business. Education is the platform on which I offer education and that we can all stand to learn a little bit more about our bodies so that we may have greater self ownership. Yeah, that's about it. Thank you so much for having me. I give you a lot of credit for starting a podcast. It's a big undertaking and I look forward to continuing to be a follower and keep up the great work.


Jase Kraft: [01:11:59] And thanks, Andy.


Sandy Gross: [01:12:01] You're welcome, bye bye. 


Jase Kraft: [01:12:02] Bye.


Jase Kraft: [01:12:04] All right, episode's over. If you found value in this episode, please consider giving us a review on iTunes and if you haven't already yet subscribed, do so now so you don't miss any important topics in the coming week. If you have any questions or suggestions for the show, please send them my way. I am most responsive on Instagram.


Jase Kraft: [01:12:25] That's at Jae Cheese. J A E. Cheese.


[01:12:29] Like the food.


[01:12:30] Or email me directly at


Sandy Gross

Functional Movement Specialist

Sandy is a functional movement specialist and a self-proclaimed movement optimist. And right about now, you are probably thinking to yourself. What the heck is a functional movement specialist? Well, I’ll tell you this. What you’ll learn in this episode will absolutely blow your mind. She has extensive experience with NCAA, professional athletes, and coaches including the 2016 NBA Champion Cleveland Cavaliers working with their team to develop strategies to prevent injury, come into every practice and competition with muscles ready to go, and guiding athletes to take control of their own recovery practices at home.